Online talk:Ulthorn the Hound

Ulthorn

This is painfully ridiculous. This NPC page exists because there is an instance of the person named Ulthorn the Hound in the game, somewhere. The data proves this here. Not only that but the bolded name at the top should either be the name of the page or more, never ever less. If you want the bolded name to be "The Hound" you must move this page over the redirect ON:The Hound, otherwise stop trying to create an exception where one does not need to and should not exist. PS: There is at least one other ingame reference to "Ulthorn the Hound", which is ON:Orchelor's Diary. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:35, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

The reason that I was pushing for him to be called "The Hound" was because when you encounter him (on both occasions) he is referred to as simply "The Hound". The reasoning behind this is that it's the title Hircine gave him, Ulthorn was his name before that. 90% of the mentions of this character call him by the title "The Hound", it's just the more colloquial option. Readers would look for him by this name, and including "Ulthorn" in the title is somewhat of a spoiler. I would recommend that the page be split, with one for "The Hound" and one for "Ulthorn", similar to ON:Varen Aquilarios and ON:The Prophet. This is because you encounter a flashback character named Ulthorn (see the gallery), and when you speak to the ON:Shade of Ulthorn, he says that this was The Hound before Hircine corrupted him and ripped out a large part of his essence. They're really two very different characters. I have never encountered an instance of a character named "Ulthorn the Hound" in-game, and though he is in the ESO data, it may have been deprecated in a more recent update. Until we have proof of where he is called this in-game, this discussion is at a standstill on what action to take. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 19:13, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I would like to protest any split similar to The Prophet and Varen Aquilarios. This is an objectionable standard and should never h ave been undertaken in the first place. As a wiki, the UESP's goal is to provide spoilers, and we have no reason to coddle to new players by catering to their every whim relating to spoilers. While "Ulthorn" could be moved lower in the page, in no way should the fact that he is Ulthorn be deliberately obscured as was done for the Prophesier. This would make it incredibly link to either page from any other, as the primary thought will be "How do I link to one or the other when both are the target page?" (perhaps like this?). Simply put, not switching one to a redirect and having all information on one page is a poor decision for the presentating of informative information. Fullerton ﴾_talk﴿ 21:25, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

The split between the Prophet and Varen is actually only because no-one has bit the bullet and merged them yet. As one of the biggest spoilers of the game they were left separate until such a time as deemed long enough past the release date that inaction could no longer be deemed acceptable. The page should be the displayed name in the game, so I can't protest if the page is moved to The Hound if this name is found to not appear in the game, but while it is here the rule applies that the bolded name must be the page name or more, never less. After that you can use whatever shorthand you want. PS There is proof he is called this in the game, even if his displayed name is never this, see the link I provided above. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:06, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I would say that the main page should be "The Hound" and am fine if "Ulthorn" redirects back to it. I don't think it matters if they're split, I was only suggesting it since you were quite adamant the current name should stay and it was the only compromise I could think of. And yes, I already saw the "proof" you spoke of, that's why I said "I have never encountered an instance of a character named "Ulthorn the Hound" in-game, and though he is in the ESO data, it may have been deprecated in a more recent update." in reference to it. The ESO log only records the character showing up around 20 times, which is rather low, meaning he likely appeared in one location and was recorded by various people. The proof that this character exists would need to be encountering him in-game in the latest patch, as he may have been removed after a certain update. We know the log records NPCs that aren't intended to be seen like the Director, a technical NPC recorded numerous times. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 22:57, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

(←) Regardless of the outcome of this conversation, if the page is currently Ulthorn the Hound, the label should be Ulthorn the Hound. If it gets moved, then it'll be changed at that point. Personally, I would lean more towards using the fullest name possible (which is what we are currently at, Ulthorn the Hound). The Hound is in that name, as is Ulthorn. I really don't see a reason NOT to use the fullest possible name, with the others redirecting here. Jeancey (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)