Oblivion talk:Magical Effects

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Archive 1: June 2006 - Oct. 2006

Spell Reflect vs Spell Absorb vs Resist Magic

Okay, so since I couldn't find this information anywhere else, I decided to do some work myself. The question is, what happens when you have simultaneous Spell Absorb, Spell Reflect, and Resist Magic effects all active at the same time? What I have worked out is that basically Spell Reflect trumps Spell Absorb, which in turn trumps Resist Magic. As I has limited time and was on the 360, these results may be incomplete, and I welcome further testing.

Example: You have a ghost casting a Frost spell at you (which is in fact what my test was).

• Case 1: You have 100% Resist Magic. Spell does nothing. End of case.

• Case 2: You have 100% Resist Magic, and 100% Spell Absorb. Spell is absorbed completely, Resist Magic does nothing. End of case.

• Case 3: You have 100% Resist Magic, 100% Spell Absorb, and 100% Spell Reflect. Spell is reflected, Resist Magic and Spell Absorb do nothing.

If anyone wants to expand on this, or do any other tests, I'd love to see what you can find out. Also, any confirmation would be great. I think this would be nice to have in the main article, but other than spelling fixes and occasional grammar fixes, I'm not the best Wiki editor, so if someone could help with that, that would be fantastic. Cheers! --Mikekearn 08:38, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

I decided to go ahead and add this into the page, and will be seeing what else needs to be done as I go. --Mikekearn 06:26, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for all the testing you've been doing, and thanks for taking the initiative to add the information (this, and the Telekinesis/Spell Absorption interaction) to the articles. Doing it yourself is the best way to get things done on a wiki :) --Nephele^Talk 10:11, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

If Spell Reflect takes priority over Spell Absorb does this confirm that the magnitudes do not stack? For example, having 50% spell reflect and 50% spell absorb does not provide 100% magic immunity. Instead it provides a 75% chance that you will receive no effects from a spell (25% of the time both spell absorb and reflect will work, with reflect taking priority and thereby cancelling absorb). This of course does not take into account those spells which cannot be reflected (magical stone traps, etc). SteVB 82.203.3.9 07:51, 21 April 2009 (EDT) Would it help if you had 100% absorb and 50% reflect you would always absorb unless you reflect making it a 50/50 chance

I would like to know the answer to this, too. -Anonargonian 14:58, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

The Spell Reflect and Spell Absorb abilities do not stack. Reflect goes first, then Absorb. Both are chance based, so with a magnitude of 50 on both, it's a 50/50 chance of the spell being reflected, and then only if it's NOT reflected, does Absorb come into play. There would be another 50/50 chance of it being absorbed. For 100% magic protection, you need to have 100% Spell Absorb, Reflect, or Resist. --Mike | Contrib 08:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Demoralize

I'm pretty sure that Demoralize up to lvl 25 does not work on evrything- I've tested it. Certain creatures that level up with you such as minotaur lords and Ogres are not affected by it if you are at a high level such as lvl 40.--Willyhead 08:32, 1 September 2007 (EDT)

Have you tried casting it on those creatures when your spell effectiveness is 100%? A frenzy up to level 25 spell can affect anything if your spell effectiveness is 100%, it may work for Command Humanoid, Command Creature, Turn Undead ect. and perhaps Demoralize. Shadownet Ninja 09:15, 1 September 2007 (EDT)

Stunted Magicka

It should be noted that this is added as an effect under a spell tome, which i believe is *magicka vortex*. The chart for this effect should be changed to an asterik for the built-in spell. Oblivion:Spell_Tomes#Magicka_Vortex

After studying how the editing business works with the chart, I edited it to * for stunted magicka, which links to the link just above. — Unsigned comment by Scxe (talk • contribs)

Looks good! Thanks :) --Nephele^Talk 13:07, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Duration

Could someone explain this? Does that mean Restore Health 10 points for 2 seconds will restore 20 health for the whole spell or only restore 5 health a second? — Unsigned comment by 209.115.229.11 (talk)

As it says at Oblivion:Restore Health: "Restore Health M points for D seconds Increases the value of the target's Health by M points each second for D seconds. (The duration is 1 second if not specified). The total increase is MxD points." So in your example, M=10, D=2; total increase is 20 (10x2).

The exact meaning of the duration depends upon the effect, so each of the individual effect pages tries to spell out exactly what it mans in that case. If you find an effect page where it's not clear, feel free to leave a message on that effect's talk page. --Nephele^Talk 01:55, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks Nephele. --(unsigned)

I think this part is wrong then (or at least imprecise in its wording?):

As a result Drain X pts for Y secs and Damage X pts for Y secs have different magnitudes.

The Drain spell will have a constant effect of X pts reduction during the duration of the spell.

A Damage spell will cause a repeating X points of reduction each second for Y seconds.

So after Y seconds, the total damage will be X*Y points, which then lasts indefinitely.

Isn't Drain the same as Restore, in that it will have M effect (repeating) over D seconds? And if Damage is "permanent", why would there be a time-effect for a Damage spell? (e.g. Skooma is "Damage Intelligence 2 Points", not "Damage Intelligence 2 Points for 7 seconds", right?)
--Laisren 02:22, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Damage is the reverse of Restore, whereas Drain is the reverse of Fortify.

In other words, both Damage and Restore have a magnitude M that repeats every second throughout the effect's duration. After the effect expires, both are permanent. So the time-effect for Damage multiplies the magnitude of the damage. When a duration is not specified (for either Damage or Restore), it is an instantaneous (non-repeating) effect.

And both Drain and Fortify have magnitudes that are constant for the duration of the effect, then vanish when the effect expires.

So as far as I can tell the quote is correct. Hopefully that explains it :) --Nephele^Talk 02:36, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Okay. Thanks. But are you sure? The Game Manual says "Drain ... lowers the value of a target's <thing>.... The magnitude is the units reduced each second of duration."

This stuff is confusing; I think it probably would have been less confusing if, in the game, they had just worded it better--specifically, instead of (e.g.) "Restore Fatigue 7 points for 12 seconds", they just put "Restore Fatigue 7 points per second for 12 seconds"!

Because ' restore ... X points for Y seconds ' can just as easily be taken to mean ' restore X (total) points over (a period of) Y seconds '.... While some might say this is just semantics, but the questions being asked show that it's important.

"both Drain and Fortify have magnitudes that are constant for the duration of the effect, then vanish when the effect expires."

So just one more time, cause I find this suprising: If I cast DRAIN Health on an opponent, I'm going to take away a flat value (not a per-second value), and for only the duration of the spell, and after the time is up, he/she will magically get that Health back. (??) (Becuase doesn't 'constant' mean X TOTAL points?)

--Laisren 00:13, 25 February 2008 (EST)

"If I cast DRAIN Health on an opponent, I'm going to take away a flat value (not a per-second value), and for only the duration of the spell, and after the time is up, he/she will magically get that Health back." Yes. Despite what the manual may say, that's how drain works. It's not the only mistake in the manual (for example, Block is governed by Endurance, not Agility) ;) --Nephele^Talk 00:38, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Reanimate

Is Reanimate a spell effect not a script effect and does it have its own page? Helper Unknown 21:45, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

It has its own page now, but not a spell entry as it's never a spell. You can only use the effect with a staff or a Power. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:56, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

 : correction ther is a spell in the construction set that has the same effect as the staff of worms — Unsigned comment by 166.70.14.62 (talk) on 16 July 2009

Would you care to share the name of that spell with us? --Timenn-<talk> 15:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

resist enchanted armor

There needs to be some clarification that resist magic does(n't) affect bad enchantments on your own armor or jewelery.

I remember like in Morrowind, you could get 100% resist magic, and put on the boots of blinding speed, and have no blindness. When the spell wore off, nothing would happen. — Unsigned comment by 67.183.28.2 (talk) on 4 June 2009

It doesn't, and I am pretty sure that it is understood. Resist_Magic states that "With Resist Magic you have M% damage reduction from offensive spells." --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 18:14, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Not so sure it is that widely understood. I only recently found this out. With the original (version 1.0) release, any spells or enchantments applied 'on self' were subject to resistance & weakness. However, with either the 1.1 or 1.2 patch, this was 'fixed' so that anything that is applied 'on self' is not affected by resistance or weakness. This can be demonstrated by providing your character with 100% fire resistance and equipping the Blackwood Ring of Silence or casting a spell that does fire damage on self. --Gaebrial 05:16, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

Command summoned creatures

If you try to command creatures summoned by enemies, half the time it won't work. Why is that? Sometimes it works and sometimes doesn't. If it works, the summoned creatures turn on their former master. If it doesn't work, they continue to attack you.

Using Command Creature lvl 25, my spell effectiveness is at 100%

Improper weakness calculation

I noticed that weakness to Magic/element/poison calculates the final damage improperly, according to the formula:

base damage+multiplied damage

this means if you cast Weakness to Magic 100%, followed by a spell that deals 40 points health damage ("Damage Health" spell), the final damage dealt will be 300%, instead of 200% (120 points health damage, instead of 80). This is because the base damage is dealt anyway.

The same problem exists, if the target has a resistance to magic or whatever. The final damage amount is reduced, but base damage is still added, albeit modified by the resistance!

This applies to all spells, not just those dealing hit point damage. It also applies to Drain Attribute, drain fatigue, burden, silence, paralysis etc. Weakness to Magic 100% followed by Drain Strength 35 points will deal 105 points strength damage (again, 300%!). Weakness to Magic 100% followed by Silence 25 seconds will increase the duration of silence to 75 seconds. Weakness to magic 100% followed by Drain Fatigue 100 points will result in a loss of 300 points fatigue, instead of 200, as it should be.

I am using a mod that allows me to create spells with a magnitude of up to 1000 points. So Weakness to Magic 1000% followed by drain strength 18 points will reduce a target's strength close to 0, even if the target has 50% resistance to magic:

18*5,5=99

The standard multiplication modifier for Weakness to Magic 1000% is 11: 10x+1x base damage=11. 50% resistance divides the damage by 2, which equals 5,5.

So the bottom line is the game always deals more damage to enemies than it should. This is true for all difficulty levels, even if on hardcore difficulty the final health damage is divided by 6 (spells that do not deal health damage like drain attribute, silence, paralysis, drain fatigue are not affected). WRFan 01:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Offensive spells

Just what are the ramifications for casting an offensive spell on an ally? Does it lower their disposition to you, cause them to attack you, go on your criminal record, or anything else besides those three things? In other words, is there anything short of killing someone with an offensive spell that does permanent damage you can't talk your way out of by subsequently charming, yielding, and increasing deposition with the Speechcraft minigame?

I want to disintegrate all my followers' weapons in order to persuade them to use the better ones that I provide them. If I do this, will they ever speak to me again? --Nocturnal 01:13, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

List of magical effects

This page is 45k, and can be almost effortlessly split into the existing article and an article entitled "List of magical effects". The text is somewhat buried underneath the list currently, and while the two are definitely complementary, they are concerned with entirely different areas: the list, with implementation, and the text, with formulas and their implications. Anarchangel 19:13, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

It is an idea, but the name of this page would be a bit redundant without having any magical effects on it. a better idea might be to move the sections 2.1, 2.4, 2.5 & 2.6 to a new page "comparison of magical effects" or something. Magnitude to Level conversion could more fittingly be moved to the Magic Overview page and the Options for Healing section is pretty much redundant info anyway--Rhomphaia^T•C 20:23, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

shield vs resist normal weapons

I couldn't find information about whether these two effects interfere with each other in a similar way to the reflect/absorb/resist magic effects do. I figure it is reasonable to suspect that they might. I think it would be good to find out, and would it be right to put the information here? I am using the Xbox version and it would be difficult to test it properly myself. Thanks.

Weakness To Magic Effect?

So it is apparent that command humanoid level 25(100%) while wearing armour will Command a max level of 23. If the foe being commanded had a 100% weakness to magic could you technically command humans up to level 46? --Lvl.17 Assassin 05:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Absorb [Effect] on Strike and Marksman

This needs testing for verification:

I believe enchanting a bow with Absorb [Effect] on Strike does not work as advertised.

As far as I can tell, the following is true of Absorb effects:

1. Both effects(on target and caster) must remain intact for either effect to continue. If one effect is removed or terminated, the other effect is also removed/terminated. For effects with multiple targets, this essentially works the same, but each target has it's own pairing with the caster.
2. The entities upon which the Absorb is acting must remain within a certain range of each other for the effect to continue(can someone with the PC version verify this distance with the construction set?). If the entities are out of range at any point during the duration of the effects, neither target nor caster are affected for the time that the entities are out of range. VERIFICATION NEEDED: If the entities come back within range of each other within the duration of the effect, does the effect resume, or is it completely terminated the moment the entities exceed the range limitation?
3. Absorb effects in spells cannot be "on Target".

The 3rd limitation essentially carries over to enchantments on weapons: one must be within melee range for Absorb [Effect] on Strike to be successful. Melee weapons work, because they are with the same "on Touch" range required for Absorb effects to apply. Marksman weapons(bows) do not work, because the distance between target and caster is too great for the effect to apply. You can achieve the desired effect with a Bow if you are in Melee range, but that defeats the purpose of using a Bow in the first place. --Throe 19:47, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Special effect

There are how many special migical effect ( like stark reality, reverse invisibilty)

Vvardfell, remember to sign your posts. There are many scripted effects, I can't count all of them. And improving your grammar a bit will help a lot, can't you put "." or "?" at the and of your sentence? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 14:26, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Although I don't like the way you talk, but THANKS for your opinion.(Vvardfell 09:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC))

Should we Include base cost?

For easier reference for spell-making, should we redevelop the charts/tables to include base cost? I would prefer to see these costs on this page, as opposed to looking up each effect individually. I could probably update the tables in two hours max, and make them sortable too. I have the motivation and ability to add the base costs, and make the tables sortable and collapsible. Would anyone be opposed to this idea? - Neural Tempest 17:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I know this information is already available on the Spell Effects page, and I already made those tables sortable, but would it be acceptable to include similar information on this page? - Neural Tempest 17:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

reflect damage Vs protect

One question of opinion for anyone, what is better: reflect damage 8 percent or shield 15 percent

Range of Absorption

I know that you can't make absorption spells with a range, but I was disappointed to discover that a custom absorb whatever can't have an area effect--even though you can make one that says it has an area.

Hope springs eternal, however--before giving up on this potentially game-shifting idea, I thought I'd ask if anybody cares to confirm that this doesn't work. Remember, what I'm saying is, say, on an Absorb Health spell (on touch) for x points with y area for a duration of z seconds, the value of y is completely ignored. Um the Muse 06:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Reflect-proof spells

I've been reading the description of the magical effect Dispel to figure out two possible reflect-proof spellmaking scenarios.

First case

A simple one, for starters. An Apprentice in both Mysticism and Destruction creates the following spell:

• Frost Damage 25 points for 1 secs on Touch, magicka cost 41 (I'm only guessing here )
• Dispel M points on Self

I've read that the magnitude of the dispel effect must be 1/5 of the magicka cost of the offending spell. Generally speaking, that would be difficult to evaluate since it involves knowledge of the attacker's skill level (which is unpredictable, sort of). Here instead you know exactly the magicka cost, it's what you read on the spellmaking altar when you create the spell. If the 1:5 ratio rule is to be trusted, here we expect M to be at least 9 (8 wouldn't be enough until the PC destruction skill has increased a little and therefore the magicka cost will be lowered).

Second case

A slightly more complex one. Consider this spell (nothing particularly useful, it's just an example):

• Drain Fatigue x pts for y secs on Touch
• Damage Fatigue z pts for y secs on Touch
• Shield x pts for y secs on Self
• Dispel M points on Self

Each effect has a magicka cost (C1,C2,C3 and eventually C4 for Dispel) that's easy to figure out playing a bit with the sliders. Imagine that the shield (beneficial) effect is the stronger, in terms of magicka cost. If M>=(C1+C2+C3)/5 the result is obvious: you have wasted magicka casting a fake Shield spell, and, if reflection takes place, the backfired part of the spell won't do no harm. The question is, what if M<C3/5 but M>C1/5, M>C2/5, M>(C1+C2)/5? In other words, the calculations involve the cost of the whole spell, or the cost of the single effects in it? I don't know whether the following Wiki quote might be misleading or perhaps the key to an answer: For multi-effect spells, Dispel acts on all of the effects simultaneously, i.e. either all are removed, or none are removed. Worth a try. 87.16.185.143 00:43, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Resist Water Damage

I've recently been poking around in the CS lately and I noticed a "Resist Water Damage" magical effect. As I could find no entries on it in the Wiki, is it possible that this effect was missed years ago? The magical effect is inconsequential, as it applies to only one spell and the spell is unused (and if it was used I would think it wouldn't work), however, I still think it needs to be mentioned at Magical Effects. MethodicMockingbird 00:53, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

The only thing close to it is the ability Immune to Water Damage in the cs. There is no effect called Resist Water Damage. The Silencer speaks^Talk 02:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

The base magical effect is called "Resist Water Damage". Look it up. The Immune to Water Damage ability is the unused spell I mentioned. Regardless, the point remains. Should it be mentioned? It's in the CS. MethodicMockingbird 02:37, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Weakness and Reflect

What happens if you have Weakness to Magic 100% and Reflect 100%? Dark wizzie (talk) 04:09, 11 July 2014 (GMT)Dark_wizzie

As mentioned above: Reflect is checked first, then Spell Absorption, then Resistance(s)JabberwockySR (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2014 (GMT)

Requests

Two requests: Re: #Spell Reflect vs Spell Absorb vs Resist Magic: Where in the resolution order do the elemental shields fit? I am guessing last, before player damage is determined. May we get a page, or add to a page, the order of physical damage reduction, please? Reflect Damage vs Shield and the elemental shields' physical damage reduction. Anarchangel (talk)