Oblivion talk:Dark Brotherhood Murderer

Deletion Proposal

Seeing as how this page was just created, I really don't think it's necessary in the least. The details of the Dark Brotherhood Murderers are already listed in Followers (albeit not as specifically), making an entire page centered around them redundant. Similarly, there is no page for the Mage Apprentice, which is nearly identical to the Dark Brotherhood Murderer in function. SubtleCynicism 21:04, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Well the followers is not as detailed and I haven't even completed the page yet. This is my first one I'm still learning to insert images etc.

Forlornhope

The problem isn't with the fact that the page is incomplete, because you obviously have not been given time to finish it; the issue is with the page's reason to exist. The fact that a Followers page exists is reason enough to assume the denomination of followers into a less-important category; as such, to make an in-depth page about a certain type of follower is counterproductive to this purpose. Not only that, but to remain consistent, a page of this sort would have to be created for each follower. However, there are many NPCs listed on the Followers page that follow the player for a short time only (usually in accordance with quests), making a page detailing their time as a follower superfluous. Also, note that you can sign your edits by placing four tilde's at the end of it. SubtleCynicism 21:28, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Also, if I could ask a couple of things of you: First, I would like to suggest that you suspend work on the page until the deletion discussion is resolved (if not just to save yourself work that may be deleted); Second, if you to intend to continue your edits, please use the "Show Preview" button rather than "Save Page" so that you do not create multiple edits (understand that we patrollers must individually check each edit, and as such, keeping the count to a minimum is a great help). SubtleCynicism 21:42, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Ok I'll stop but the followers doesn't detail them at all. I did edit it a bit to expand its info tho. I was going to do one for the mages and knights as well since I enjoy having followers around I thought id do a page on each of the useful (ie not quest related) ones and their equips/etc. I just don't think its fair at all to judge a pages worth before it even has any information on it. Forlornhope 22:11, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

If there's a separate page for the Adoring Fan, there's no reason why there shouldn't be separate pages for DB Murderers and Mage Apprentices who are far more useful. The information on the Followers page is good enough for someone who just wants to have a quick list of all useful followers but a separate detailed page like this one should provide information on their stats(weapons, spells, races, etc). I use Murderers and Apprentices iften so I'll try and help as much as I can. --Sundaroct131088 22:35, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, if you are intent on the creation of other pages for followers, I'm not here to stop either of you. My worry was that the original editor was only planning on the creation of this page, which I am still convinced of. However, if there are to be other pages, they will have to be consistent with each other. If this is to become a project, which is apparent, I will remove the deletion tag; however, I will continue to keep my eye on this page, as well as the pages created under the project. Unfortunately, this page is already riddled with grammar, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization errors, as well as poor wording. I'll make a few edits myself in order to counteract this, but we'll see how it goes. SubtleCynicism 22:54, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes, I believe there's enough information to justify separate pages for the Murderers and Apprentices. --Sundaroct131088 23:24, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Just to respond to SC's comment about creating a page for every NPC listed on the Followers page - it's not that unusual, if you consider the fact that with the exception of Mage Apprentice, Knight of the Nine, Imperial Legion Archer, and up until today Dark Brotherhood Murderer, every other NPC listed on that page already DID have a page. Given that each of these types of followers comes in multiple varieties, I think it may indeed be worth documenting them all on their own pages. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:26, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes, well, I'm beyond the point of skepticism, in light of the consensus. In fact, I've made some considerable edits to this page and will be starting (and hopefully finishing) the rest of the required pages tomorrow. SubtleCynicism 01:14, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

Best murderer to pick

Contrary to what the article says, I find the Imperial Archer to be the best of the lot. Sure in a head-to-head fight the Khajiit easily beats the other two but I find the Khajiit and Breton easily get overpowered, especially at higher levels. The archer however sometimes comes with enchanted arrows, and given sufficient room to move around he can be very useful. The worst murderer to pick imo, is the Breton female. Also the Breton female is the only one who buys/sells items. --Sundaroct131088 22:48, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

This is why opinion-based content should be avoided. I haven't edited the main page yet because it's clearly still a work in progress but at some point, phrases like "this Murderer is very difficult to keep alive" will need to come off as it's all down to a given player's style of combat. --Rpeh^Talk 00:49, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

There's really no "style of combat" where the archer isn't the best pick. I removed the line about him being quickly defeated in close quarter combat because a) It seems obvious an archer would be at a disadvantage in close b) It's bias against the archer because there's no mention of the Khajiit being useless from range or the Breton being useless in general and c)If you don't want people saying he's the best pick on the page because it shows bias/opinion I don't know why you would throw that comment out there when there's no debasing remarks about the other murderers. It seems like editors were trying to show a weakness in his game to prevent people from endorsing him as the most useful murderer. 173.66.234.111 14:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow

Geez its changed while I was out! I don't know how to create tables etc I've only been here a short while. :P How do you go about finding out the exact health like that? I tried using the NPC template to make that little table but it ended up as a huge block of text instead. Sorry about the left typos I ceased editing it including the typos when I was asked to. Forlornhope 03:05, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

You get the information by using the Construction Set or (if you're a real geek like me) writing your own program to grab the data directly from the game files. You'll often find that newly-created pages grow quickly as a lot of people will think "that's a good idea" and dive in to add their own snippets of information. --Rpeh^Talk 03:32, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

Murderer health

The article states that the Archer has the most health, but the figures quoted don't bear this out. Can somebody confirm the correct values for the health of the different murderers? --Gaebrial 02:22, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

I think he may have lower health but because he wears a Shrouded Hood he gets extra protection and skill bonuses than the others. At level 31 my archer survived 3 hits from an Ogre. — Unsigned comment by Sundaroct131088 (talk • contribs)

If you're looking at the Mage as having higher health, the Mage's level looks like it's set at 5. The Archer however, appears to be 2 levels lower than the player. So, at higher levels, the Archer's level may be well into the 20s, while the Mage will remain at level 5. I think at least... --Saruuk 05:22, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

True. Based on the edits I've seen so far, the Mage seems to be the best murderer and the Archer seems to be the weakest. What nobody realizes is that the Archer doesn't need much health because he always keeps his distance from enemies, which means at higher levels he WILL last longer than the other two. The healing spell the mage has is virtually useless because she does NOT heal herself during the heat of battle and because she is not leveled I don't think her other stats and skills increase either. I don't know why it says, "The Archer will be killed easily in close quarters combat" when the other two also get killed in a matter of seconds. --Sundaroct131088 05:59, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

I've gone ahead and added the equations for NPC health and magicka to the infoboxes. Even though everybody obviously hates the equations, they at least provide some relevant information. Whereas the health/magicka numbers that were there before were really just random numbers that have absolutely no relationship to the NPC's actual health. For leveled NPCs, the health information visible in the construction set is not used in any way to determine the NPC's health. Instead, it is all done using equations based on the character's race, gender, and class.

As for the question of who has the most health, yes, the Mage's level is fixed at level 5 and therefore her health is always 50. So at low levels (up to PC level 8) she will have more health than either of the others. At higher levels, the archer will always have the most health. --Nephele^Talk 12:10, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

respawns?

I was wondering it says they respawn but its been over 3 days which I thought was the standard respawning time but my khajiit hasnt come back yet.

They won't respawn if you're in the same cell. In other words, leave the sanctuary and come back three days later. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:00, 3 February 2008(EST)

One of my murderers got killed and whenever I try to get another one they say I already have a follower. I'm quite sure he's quite dead. This happen to Anyone else? Anyway to fix this on Xbox or will it fix itself? 68.166.64.77 15:37, 6 February 2008 (EST)

The same thing happened to me on the PS3 and I can't figure out what happened or how to reset the situation. I had the archer as a follower and told him to remain hidden. He was killed during the mission in Howling Cave and I can't get another murderer to follow me because they believe he is still alive. I saw and even pilfered his body. Does anyone know how to fix this? 98.115.248.230 05:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I lost one of my murderers, command was stay hidden and stay here. whenever I try to get another one they say I already have a follower. Does it make sense to search the basterd? This happen to Anyone else? Anyway to fix this on PS3 don't think it will fix itself?

Stay Here counts as Following you still, because you can still order them around. In order to use another murderer, you have to use Begone to banish him. I would search the area you left him in with Detect Life, to see if he is still around, which he very well should be.

Reference IDs?

I noticed that this article had no RefIDs or BaseIDs, can someone please post them, i want to make an army of the khajiit warriors since they will all follow me if i tell the original to (dont argue with what i just said, ive tested it with all the others)

Merchant

The Breton won't sell me anything or buy anything. She's not my active murderer, so that's not it. Does anyone know why? -91.107.89.123 09:27, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm having this problem as well. Not sure what it is. NIL 16:31, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Probably you have another active murderer, she won't sell you things on that case. — Unsigned comment by 201.43.18.41 (talk) at 19:14 on 1 July 2013

Pickpocketing

I have been wondering about why the archer murderer attacked me after pickpocketing him. While he was sleeping, I started to pickpocket him to improve my sneak skill, and after a while of doing it over and over again he got up and he got up and started attacking me?Master264 14:02, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Pickpocketing a NPC lowers your disposition with it. When his disposition was low enough, it passed a threshold, and he started attacking you on sight. --Timenn < talk > 15:19, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Oblivion Gate

Why did the Oblivion gate I destroyed spit out my Khajiit murderer that died in it?Master264 14:09, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

It must probably have coincided with the Murderer respawning after his death. After you close an Oblivion Gate it will teleport your followers to the location of the recently closed gate (just like you), so that's why that is a likely moment to find your followers again. --Timenn < talk > 15:19, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

The gates spit out anything that was following you and dies in it, same goes for atronachs from frastcraig, man at arms from battlehorn, and even the adoring fan if he follows you in 24.162.122.34 22:42, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Usability Issue

I noticed several pages link to: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dark_Brotherhood_Murderer

Which shows up as a blank page, where as the URL I found for this one is

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dark_Brotherhood_Murderers

I think its probably best to change this link to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dark_Brotherhood_Murderer instead of altering the otherones, but I don't know how to alter a link name here (unfortunately)

- KermEd

I'm having trouble following you; where are the links you're referring to? "Murderers" should automatically redirect to "Murderer", and it does for me when I click the links you provided. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 17:36, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

respawning inventorys?

i pickpoketed the archer murderer while he was sleeping and took his armor(it looks like hes wearing it but he not really a graphic bug probably) anyway i reverse pickpoketed an enchanted black robe and hood and some bound boots and a dagger. so he was equipped with these things but when i fast traveled he was weaing his armor and bow and when i killed him the stuff i gave him was gone..does anyone know what happend? or has this been covered before?--75.95.117.108 20:30, 1 December 2008 (EST)

I have also had this happen with my bound-armored followers, and would like confirmation as to why this happens. I think fast-travelling may cause a reset, but I cannot be sure.

Fast-traveling does cause them to reset inventories, especially on "Generic Named followers" such as "Dark Brotherhood Murderer", because the game treats them as a respawnable NPC, so it does not keep track of all of its belongings all the time. Named Followers, such as Castellan Athon, and the brothers from Legacy Lost, can be equipped as you see fit, and they will generally use the best available items.

mage wont respawn

my mage wont respawn into the sanctuary, even thought she was the first to die. is this a bug or something or glitch, if it is can someone tell em how to fix it. plus i think it might have something ot do with her being the only one to die inside and oblivion gate.

It takes 3 days for them to respawn. Mishaxhi 04:48, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

-I need a mage to kill ghosts, but it didn't respawn. It has been a long time since she died or I use her, please help.

Question about Murders Sneak Attacks

Simple question here: When you tell the Archer or Warrior Murderer to "stay hidden," will they use sneak attacks upon entering combat? And if this is so, do they get the sneak attack bonuses? — Unsigned comment by 24.23.88.49 (talk) on 14-03-2009

This should be tested. Can NPCs perform sneak attacks? Something tells me they can't, but you never know. --Timenn < talk > 10:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Me again, and I have something that may or may not be helpful. I noticed at one point, when I caused the Archer Murderer to start a fight with the Khajitt Murderer. I made the Archer follow me in Sneak Mode, and then used a Frenzy on the Khajitt. The Archer attacked the Khajitt, and killed him extremely quickly, without me ever attacking him. I had not given the Archer any bound armor weapons, either. — Unsigned comment by 24.23.88.49 (talk) on 16 March 2009

It's hard to tell because usually they turn invisible don't they? If you could see them, they will draw their bow at a horizontal angle to sneak attack. --Matthewest ^{•T•C•E•} 01:59, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Dark Brotherhood Murderer is not completely invisible

(Following moved here from Oblivion:Glitches/Proposed)

As Listener of Dark Brotherhood, you can recruit guys as DB Murderers and ask them to follow you, remaining hidden. It works perfectly: Murderer uses some kine of chameleon spell and is invisible. Strangely enough, in Bravil the head of Murderer becomes becomes visible, while the rest remains invisible.Screenshot.--Oblivarine

Guards Always Kill Murderer

For some reason, every time I go into a town with the archer murderer, the guards rush to him and kill him. Does anyone have an explanation for this and perhaps, hopefully, a way to fix it? Thanks. --Zombieinfection 02:32, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Maybe he has hit one guard befor accidently with an arrow...--Another user 14:36, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

Followers are able to get bounty, even respawning followers such as Mages and Dark Brotherhood Murderers. Even though they die, they seem to respawn with the same bounty, and the guards treat them as though they never paid, even though they died. My Dark Brotherhood Murderer (Mage-type) tries to kill me every time she spawns. And there is a war going on in the Arcane University, because Battlemages try to kill a Mage Apprentice and all nearby mages defend her, killing Battlemages and gaining bounty. My Castellan Athon also is assaulted by the guards.

Try casting a fortify Personality spell on the follower. The guards may leave him be when they see him and not attack him afterwards. 173.66.234.111 14:16, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Can you use the console to remove the fine? Someone test the fortfy personality spell to. Lord Jeerus 17:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)Lord Jeerus

Not Talking to NPCs

(moved from the article)

I walked through Skingrad with him with "Follow me, with utmost haste!" and he didn't stop to talk to anyone, even when i stood still for 10 minutes next to 2 NPCs

Verified, I tried it in Cheydinhal, at first I stood at the Count's Bodyguard and he just stared at him. Then an orc tried to talk with him and he ignored him and stared.

If you tell him to follow you with utmost haste he will not talk to npc's at all. If you tell him to keep pace, he will talk to them.

Kajiit

Is the Kajiit Murderer the only Kajiit follower you can possibly hope to get in normal gameplay?--Arch-Mage Matt 02:10, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What are you talking about, "normal" gameplay? And it's khajiit I think. Lord Jeerus 17:01, 21 December 2009 (UTC)Lord Jeerus

I think by Normal he means Oblivion without Mods that might add more Khajiit followers. And to answer Arch-Mage Matt's Question Yes he is the only Khajiit Follower in Normal Oblivion this is on the Followers Page --VergilSparda 19:17, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Useless Bug Note for the mage

Isn't the "You can't acsess her dispostion, limiting how you trade with her," point for the mage useless, since she is in the Dark Underling faction, making her disposition 100 with you anyway?--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 01:45, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Very good point, which is also probably why there's no disposition button. I've reworded the entry appropriately and made it a note rather than a bug. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:01, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Khajiit Assassin on defense of bruma

My assassin died in the defense of bruma (i think he was alive when i enter to the gate) now he wont respawn(i wait more than 7 days), if i tried moveto and it will take me to the place of the fight but there is no body.

Theres any way to bring him back using the console?

Well, I have never experianced this, but i hear that if a follower is in the wastes of oblivion when you activate the Sigil Stone they get left behind in the plane of oblivion because they have to be IN the tower to be transported back to cyrodiil. Otherwise, try the placeatme command or something similar. Or, try the mage. =)--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 01:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Imperial Archer Murderer won' respawn

My murderer won't respawn and it has been well over 7 days since he died. He died in the defence of Bruma but not in the great gate itself (I saw him die after a dremora smashed a war hammer into his head). Any suggestions as to why this has happened and any suggestions on how to get him back on Xbox360.

Defence of Bruma Assasin death bug fix

To fix the bug of the NPCs not respawning when they die type the following in the console:

player.moveto [refID of the NPC follower]

prid [refID of the NPC follower]

enable

resurrect

~~ DeadBread

Imperial Archer keeps attacking me

I had the Imperial Archer murderer as a follower, until he got killed. (Actually I jumped off a cliff to save time and he got killed.) Then a few days later I fast travelled somewhere and he suddenly shows up, except he instantly starts attacking me. Guards and others rush to kill him, the end. This keeps on happening, and I can't get another murderer, because they think he's my follower. But I can't talk to him, he just keeps trying to kill me.

Now, this is kinda funny in an Inspector Clouseau/Kato kinda way - it's like he blames me for getting him killed, bless him - but it's starting to piss me off. Any suggestions how I can get rid of him?! Using a calm or charm spell doesn't seem to work.90.194.145.3 18:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Just a question have you tried yielding to him? Other than this I have no idea. Do you play on console or PC? --KizC 20:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Imperial archer wont stop attacking me

I'm having the same problem as the other guy, but my problem is, i used the Staff of Worms on the archer, then used him as a practice dummy for hand to hand combat. now whenever he respawns he try's to kill me, and he always rejects my yield whether i use spells on him or not.

Same problem they attack me always

what can I do?

Well, if you would like an answer a little description of your problem would be nice. I don't know about the others, but I personally am not a telepath. May you describe the problem and I will be more than happy to answer it. Sn0L3prd 01:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

i think hes having a problem with the archer always attacking him

I agree, since the title says same problem. I as well am having the same issue, I think I pocketed my archer to many times (even though most of those were accidental). I'll be trying a few different things to see if I can fix it. I'll report back with what I tried and if it worked. 166.250.106.123

ok so trying things on the actual follower did nothing, I tried charming and even raising the disposition via the consol. Raising my personality on the other hand worked! I first used a scroll to raise it by 15 I was able to talk to him even though he still looked angry at me (also it ran out and he started attacking me again). I then changed it via the consol which worked. I told him to begone and return to hideout, then I reset my personality (which is 67) and picked up a different follower. I leveled up in the meantime adding 2 points to personality making it 69 I was able to go back and pick up the archer again (still has an angry face though). 166.250.106.123

Well, I've looked in the Construction Set and I can't find anything. Do any of you have mods or anything like that installed? If any of you are on the PC, could you perhaps send me a saved game? That might help me investigate it further. – Robin Hood↝talk 07:24, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Mage`s spells?

Will the mage follower use the black winter spell? Cant check myself at the moment or in the near future.--82.46.168.98 22:30, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

I know this is a late response, but in case you're still interested, yes, she will. 206.109.97.91 04:03, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

Thanks, nice to know that I can have a follower that can paralyze enemies.--82.46.168.98 22:53, 21 August 2013 (GMT)

Reusable Idle-Talk: Notable?

It seems as though the Dark Brotherhood Murderers have reused idle-talk from the original members of the Sanctuary. This can lead to some confusing gossip where Antoinette is mentioned, as if she were alive, despite being dead, and it wouldn't make sense that any of the Dark Brotherhood Murderers would know of her. Is it worth mentioning that they reuse dialogue?