Lore talk:Planes of Existence

Advice

Could someone pick one of the "advices" that appear on the load screens which mentions how many planes of oblivion are there? Each daedric prince rules one... Plus the Camoran Paradise revelation, spoiler, about Mehrunes' own plane.— Unsigned comment by Vook (talk • contribs)

I just did some rewriting of this page, including my interpretation of the load screen info. Mehrunes Dagon is a daedric prince, so his plane would be one of the sixteen mentioned, not an additional one. The only inconsistency is that the page on Daedric Princes lists seventeen daedric princes, but whether Jyggalag is truly a daedric prince has previously been questioned. --Nephele 16:52, 22 September 2006 (EDT)

According to the TES4 expansion, Shivering Isles, isn't Sheograth's plane called Shivering Isles? or is it just part of his realm? Praetor alpha 23:02, 4 February 2007 (EST)

It has been called the Madhouse in a lot of lore literature before now. Both terms are correct. --Ratwar 23:09, 4 February 2007 (EST)

The fact that there are only 16 planes of oblivion would seem to be proven false false anyway. Sanguine lords over no less than ten times ten thousand pleasure pockets of the Void (according to the Imperial Census of Daedra Lords), Mehrunes Dagon has both the Deadlands and the Chimeria of Desolation (Battlespire) and The Soul Cairn has no Daedric prince ruler. (also Battlespire) Jadrax 02:52, 5 February 2007 (EST)

(←) Isn't Mankar Camoran's Paradise a Plane of Oblivion? I read somewhere it was. 217.43.98.73 06:52, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

No it isn't, it's just another dimension created by magic--Willyhead 13:53, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

dyus in an interview says thare are "19 voids"

" Or with Mehrunes Dagon. Do not speak his name to me again. The Master of Scum. The pawn of every Prince of true power, the dupe of every schemer in the Nineteen Voids."

i can only assume he means planes of oblivion (Diobern 15:34, 22 October 2008 (EDT))

also called 'The Asylum' 24.56.248.122 23:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Sheogorath Vs. Jyggalag

Should Jyggalag's taking over of the Shivering isles be included in this page, as once every era the Shivering isles became Jyggalag's plane. This is my purposed idea.

Sheogorath's Madhouse (The Shivering Isles) and Jyggalag's plane

• Madhouse, or commonly called The Shivering Isles, is Sheogorath's realm that is accessible in the TES4 expansion of the same name. It is divided into halves: the north is called Mania, and reflects the lighthearted side of its ruler's madness. It is similar to Vvardenfell's West Gash Region, with expansive grasslands and huge mushroom trees. The southern half, Dementia, represents the dark and violent side of Sheogorath, and is gloomy and claustrophobic. There are mortals living here as well as daedra. The town of New Sheoth lies in the center of the isles, which is also divided into two sections. Sheogorath's palace lies here.
• Little is known about Jyggalag's plane, but it is revealed the Shivering Isles Expansion for Oblivion that once every era, Jyggalag would gain control of the isles and shape them to his whim.Jim 909 17:41, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Yes. I kinda took the liberty of correcting a few minor errors before you submit it. Hope you don't mind. ;)—Sam324 13:39, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Attribution's Share Naming Coincidence...?

I see one of the realms is named Attribution's Share. Is there any relation to this "Attribution-ShareAlike" license mentioned below, or is it just some odd coincidence?—Sam324 13:35, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

"Any content you submit must not violate copyright. You agree to license your contributions under the Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License (see UESPWiki:Copyright and Ownership for details). Note that all contributions to UESPWiki may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors."

This is most probably just a coincidence, I don't think a daedric realm would be a reference to the copyright details :) --VergilSparda 22:44, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Namira's Scuttling Void

Is there more information about Namira's realm? In the article is only mentioned its name. Gux 08:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Valid comments

Are the comments that state that the realms of Peryite and Boethia can be visited in Oblivion accurate? The planes of Oblivion visited in TES4 all seem to conform to Mehrunes Dagon's realm rather than those of the other two. I can understand letting Peryite's comment stay, given it's similarities to Hell, but I didn't see anything like the described "twisted towers" or "immense maze gardens" during Boethiah's shrine quest. I don't know why any of the Daedric Princes would send someone to the realm of a different prince, but that's what appears to have happend in Oblivion. Any thoughts? -Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs)} 04:04, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

It is basically where development and lore unfortunately collide in an ugly hit. Basically, those are their realms, but as you mentioned, the descriptions are a little off. If you want to read some more, I suggest looking through these books. –Elliot ^talk 04:14, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought the same thing, but was hoping someone caught something during the brief trips to the two realms that I may have missed that explained the differences. On that note, I may have figured a work around for Peryite's incongruity. The Daedric Prince never specifically states that his followers ended up in the Pit(s), simply that they tried to reach him and failed. Given the fact that Mehrunes Dagon is already working on tearing a hole between Mundus and the Deadlands, perhaps the ritual Peryite's followers tried sent their spirits to the wrong realm? I know it's just conjecture, and logic would support the idea that the developers simply didn't have the time/money/willpower to create another realm with unique textures and designs for an area that would only be visited once, but it's a thought. -Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs)} 05:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Though the latter part is still speculation, the fact that Peryite doesn't state which plane of Oblivion gives some sort of explanation. --Timenn-<talk> 10:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Soul Cairn Gem Vampires?

Could anyone better describe the soul cairn or gem vampires to me? And if they can could they add it to the page? — Unsigned comment by Fimmion (talk • contribs) on 23 December 2009

I have heard or read nothing on any gem vampires, and I just looked. It might have been made up. I vote to take it out. --184.59.197.174 03:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

The Ideal Masters come from Battlespire, and although they look like gems, the term "Gem Vampires" seems to be a bit of made up fanfiction from TIL. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:23, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Backbone

I deleted the stuff about Malacath's realm having a backbone. It all comes from an offhand remark from Sheogorath in the SI quests: "Now? You'll need the respect of My citizens. They'll need a leader, someone to look up to when I'm gone. They're the backbone of any great land. Except where the backbone is an actual backbone. Ever been to Malacath's realm...? Nasty stuff. But, back to the business at hand." I don't believe this remark can be used as a reference. It's from an insane god in jocular mood and shouldn't be taken seriously. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:22, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Dawn's Beauty

Mankar Camoran seems to believe Nirn is simply Lorkhan's plane of oblivion. Is this worth mentioning in the article?   -- Moses 09:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Given that he also seems to think that Coldharbor is Meridia's Plane of Oblivion I'd argue he's not the most reliable source. 4.252.213.170 04:13, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Identical Planes?

Peryite, Boethia and Mehrunes Dagon all have 'identical' planes of Oblivion. I am assuming this is laziness on the part of the developer to develop unique environments for miniquests. If that's the case, shouldn't the description of Peryite's place be different? I'm sure the lore somewhere will hint towards the true nature of plane. Also, a mention of this should be made in the Boethia section. -BurningMan 04:19, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Ideal Masters

It's said that the Soul Cairn where the undead dwell is controlled by the Ideal Masters. But who said this? And when? I haven't seen any articles or mentions of them anywhere. — Unsigned comment by 71.191.159.40 (talk) at 18:08 on 6 May 2011

A level in Battlespire took place in the Soul Cairn. You can speak with red crystals who call themselves the "ideal masters", and who I've also seen referred to as gem vampires. The quest walkthroughs for Battlespire don't get much attention, so I'm not entirely sure what they do. If you're interested in finding out more about the lore, The Imperial Library has some decent coverage of most of the game's dialogue and such. Legoless 17:39, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I was confused about the Soul Cairn as well. I didn't realize it was from Battlespire until I read the talk page in an attempt to find out more about it. Should there be a reference from Battlespire at the end of this article? Should there be a link to who the Ideal Masters are as well? I think the article, and the page as a whole, might benefit from references. This would cut down on confusion and give direct sources as to where the information comes from. Selenameeka 15:11, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Mehrunes Dagon ruled before Akatosh banished him...

UESP has recently become full of misinformation or speculation from specific in-game characters treated as truth with no citations. Another example. — Unsigned comment by 50.40.210.244 (talk) at 07:06 on 8 December 2011‎

Source on Attribution's share?

There are no sources listed here, and a quick search doesn't reveal any in-game books that mention it. The area in oblivion is simply called 'realm of boethiah' and wouldn't fit the description anyway. So, where this the source come from? --85.191.86.135 15:07, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The source for many of the listed planes is only a somewhat "dubious" Obscure Text from the Imperial Library. This text is not consider canon by Bethesda but most of the community considers it canon (why ever). --Killfetzer 15:10, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

[1] --Killfetzer 15:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The painted world

In the quest A Brush With Death you are transported to the painted world of rythe lythandas. The loading screens are the same as the ones when entering a plane of oblivion. Ought this be a plane of oblivion? Emzi 43 — Unsigned comment by 86.136.252.23 (talk) at 23:16 on 2 March 2012 (GMT)

(edit conflict) It is not a plane of Oblivion and is already documented at Lore:Brush of Truepaint. --Legoless 22:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Mephala's Realm

In the artical is nothng about Mephala's realm — Unsigned comment by 87.182.152.248 (talk) at 21:21 on 21 September 2013‎

It is all we know officially, with some unofficial info on it from Michael Kirkbride (a former Bethesda employee). Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 20:29, 31 October 2013 (GMT)

Planes of Existence

The new book Aetherial Fragment speaks in terms of general planes, rather than planes of Oblivion, etc. And there are Planes of Aetherius, as well. We've seen the Mantellan Crux in Daggerfall, Sovngarde in Skyrim, and ESO apparently takes us to the Far Shores. And, arguably, the term "Planes of Oblivion" may not be meant to connote all of the smaller planes which we've included here. I believe it would be most fitting and helpful to readers to redirect this page to a more general article at Lore:Planes of Existence, which would include sections and subsections on all the planes we know about, including Mundus. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 02:53, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

I would say that makes sense. As long as Lore:Oblivion is scrapped as a redirect and turned into a full article to complement Aetherius and Mundus, and anything that specifically refers to Oblivion (the realm) is directed there rather than to the Planes of Existence page. --Enodoc (talk) 08:42, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

I can do that. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 12:19, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

I support this.--Ashendant (talk) 15:06, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

Yes please. I never liked the title of this page. In ESO we also see planes that correlate to the moons, so it seems like the idea of Aedric planes is also being embraced. —Legoless (talk) 15:18, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

(←) The revamped page is done. Please make any tweaks as necessary. --Enodoc (talk) 00:25, 20 December 2014 (GMT)

Realm Categorization

I brought this up on this on the Discord, but moving it here for on-site discussion. I think it would be beneficial to document all of the terms used to categorize realms and provide a definition/criteria if we have one. I think this page would be the best place to do so, probably right after the line at the top about Outer Realms. Here are the ones I have found:

With a definition:

• Adjacent Places: Realms that exist beyond the normal non-cardinal points and (uol -->) exist as reflections of the realm they are 'adjacent' to.
• Slipstream Realms: Points within the Aurbis at which transliminal forces balance. They operate as transition zones where the conceptual truths of different realms, such as time, can coexist. They were first discovered and given their name by the Imperial Mananauts, who used the regions to acclimate their minds to Oblivion by gentle degrees.
• Oblivious Vortexes: Realms between planes that gather drifting fragments of chaotic creatia.
• Inchoate Realms: Regions of incomplete and half-finished demi-planes that were for some reason abandoned by their projectors. Dangerous for even powerful Daedra Lords and subject to realm-rips.
• Collective Realms: Realms that exist as collective extensions of their numerous, less-powerful inhabitants.
• Sundered Realms: Pocket realities that were shattered by interplanar war or Princely expungement.

Without a definition:

• Nanoplanes
• Demi-Planes / Demiplanes
• Pocket Realms: Originally I thought by Taerma's dialogue that pocket realms were made out of larger planes, but Fa-Nuit-Hen's Q&A seems to go against this, labeling Maelstrom, the Battlespire's Slipstream Realm, and the Soul Cairn pocket realms despite not displaying any signs of an origin from a larger plane.

Thoughts on including these on this page? I feel like we should be documenting them somewhere. Mindtrait0r (talk) 14:11, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Sound good, and yeah this would be the place for it I think. Regarding pocket realms, my understanding from the name alone is that they are a smaller type of realm (insofar as an infinite plane of existence can be "small"). For example, Lord Velian's Plane is defined as a pocket plane and consists only of a small High Rock village. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:31, 20 September 2023 (UTC)