Lore talk:People O

Ocato

I'm making a page for High Chancellor Ocato, but I'm not quite sure what the title should be. It would match the Oblivion namespace page if it was High Chancellor Ocato, but he then became Potentate Ocato. Or it could be simply Ocato. Also of note is that the Imperial Library calls him "Ocato of Firsthold", though I don't think anyone has called him that in-game. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 19:10, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I'd say Ocato, and then redirects for the other titles? And the obvious note in the first sentence. --kiz ^talk_email 19:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Kiz. Sounds like the best idea. --Legoless 22:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I see no reliable source about him being Ocato "of Firsthold". And the chancellor/potentate thing is a title that has obviously changed over time. Also looking forward to seeing the article.

On a related note: did Ocato appear in Daggerfall? -- kertaw48 13:26, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm currently working on this page, title TBD, in my sandbox; a TIL link can be found there to the "Ocato of Firsthold" title. It seems to imply that "Ocato of Firsthold" may have come from the Daggerfall manual. I could be wrong, but it also might be a common naming convention in the Summerset Isles, as I've seen one or two other Altmer known as "[name] of [place]". That link also has a video of Daggerfall's opening intro; judging by the page's description, I'm assuming Ocato is supposed to be the guy holding the torch. If so, he does "appear" in Daggerfall. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 13:35, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

(←) I tried to find Dagerfall's manual on replacementdocs.com, but no such luck. I would suggest that we stick to Ocato, until we can confirm this (also the naming convention fits very well with Altmer names). Also did you include these two letters in your article? They might suggest that the position of Chancellor or Imperial Battlemage had something to do with overseeing the actions of Mages Guild. -- kertaw48 16:40, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I have the manual, and know it comes from it. Let me dig it up...

"The current Emperor is no stranger to you. You have helped him in the past, and know he considers you a loyal subject, perhaps even a friend. Trust is a hard prize to win for Uriel Septim. He trusted his last Imperial Battlemage, and it nearly destroyed him. His current Imperial Battlemage, Ocato of Firsthold, long of the Elder Council, has alone earned thhe position of the Emperor's confidante and chief advisor... Uriel Septim greeted you foramlly, in utter darkness, as Ocato lit a single candle, emanating the barest illumination. This was to be an unusually surreptitious meeting, even for the cautious Uriel Septim." --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 16:41, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! That's helpful in more ways than one. I'm considering that to be determinative of the page title, with redirects on the other names. I don't know if this has been discussed, but Lore:Black Marsh treats the Daggerfall Manual as an in-game source, and I'd like to continue doing so. Any objections? Plenty of time to do so; I've got some other things to take care of and I'm moving at a snail's pace.

In reply to Kertaw, I am citing to Morrowind's Letter from Ocato as evidence that Ocato was, at the very least, unwittingly involved in assisting the Nerevarine (though his relationship with the Emperor suggests he knew all about it). I'm hesitant to speculate any further on it because of the ambiguity in "In the Emperor's Name". There are a number of ways to interpret it; he could've been relying on his own authority as Imperial Battlemage or Chancellor to force Trebonius' resignation, but it's distinctly possible he was acting only as the Emperor's right-hand man, without the color of an office specific to him. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 23:57, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Orvas Dren

I was going to make a redirect for him, but I really don't think he's noteworthy. We know the name of family members for many, many royalty throughout the games, and many of them are simply not relevant for lore entries. If he was affirmatively stated to be the heir-apparent to his brother's position, that might be a different story, but I don't think there's any indication of that. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 06:38, 10 May 2013 (GMT)

Provisional dates

This has been marked as a question that needs to be answered.

More dates of known activity for people previously listed as (?b - ?d) as per this discussion. Just one note:

• Odar the Brave: I was unable to find any dating information for Castles.

More letters to follow.--Draugluin (talk) 10:28, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm marking this as a good question. Hopefully editors knowledgeable about Castles can chime in. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Per the introduction, Odar the Brave was made king by the 'Dragon Emperor'. This term is never used in OL, but in in UOL it refers to Tiber Septim. In-game his age is 30. While this doesn't fully narrow it down, if he was promoted by Tiber, his promotion had to be during his reign (between 2E 854-3E 38) Assuming he was at least 16 when he was promoted, the max death year is ~3E 52? I'll keep looking for further clues. Mindtrait0r (talk) 14:18, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Actuallly! They removed the "Dragon Emperor" bit in the final game. It only said that in the beta. Now it only says Emperor.

Tarponpet (talk) 10:25 AM, 23 February 2024 (EST)

Honestly, I think their goal was to not have a specific time or place. If so, any sort of "clues" that we gather for a date, will be, by definition, original research and shouldn't be used. They may even have purposefully conflicting information in order for the date to remain unknown. Much like with Blades and its location. I don't think we should be putting dates at all, since if the devs don't have a date, then a date does not exist. Jeancey (talk) 16:55, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

In your example, though, we can deduce a location based on what is said. The wiki uses such details (I believe Destane's dialogue) to place Rivercrest in Cyrodiil. If such a detail exists in Castles I say we use it, but I given the nature of the game I have my doubts if one exists. Mindtrait0r (talk) 18:37, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Given that Castles:Unique NPCs lists characters from a wide range of historical eras, I suspect Jeanecy is correct. Odar may have to remain on the small list of characters for whom no reliable dating exits.--Draugluin (talk) 10:24, 24 February 2024 (UTC)