Lore talk:Lorkhan

Worn and weathered note

How likely is it that Morrowind's 'worn and weathered note' is written as if from the view of Lorkhan, or at the least as if from the view of one of the Aedra? 'It appeared to me as real as the very wonders it was reflecting. I stepped forward to prove to no one and everyone that they were, by belief. For an aching instant I was betwixt the two and the summation. Confusion befell me and I fell through, only to realize I hadn't entered the lake, I had left it. With all of my remaining life I howled at the heavens and collapsed, like a star on the shores of my youth, as my life's breath wandered away from the home it had harbored. I have been drowning on dry land ever since.' Feldherren 16:58, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Missing God no longer missing?/Lorkhan and Talos

I don't remember clearly which, but a number of in-game books implied that the Missing God had taken several forms - "Shezarrines" - including Harald Harry-Breeks, a wizard with a Nordic name I cannot recall, Pelinal Whitestrake, Zurin Arctus, the Underking, and finally Tiber Septim, all of which were rolled into one upon Tiber Septim's apotheosis. I may have missed some, but it seems to imply that Talos is in fact the Missing God, and therefore no longer missing from the Cyrodiilic pantheon. Again, I can't provide details, or I would simply edit and add appropriate references. The names of a bunch of Shezarrines are all I've got. 32.155.213.85 02:44, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

The Nord's name is Wulfharth, there's also a Hans the Fox that was a Shezarrine. — Unsigned comment by 32.155.213.85 (talk) at 06:54 on 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Talos is a multi-entity being that includes Wulfharth, who is one of many, similar Lorkhan avatars. So he's not Lorkhan, he's just another (partial) echo that happens to hold Shezzar's place int he Cyrodiilic pantheon.71.244.119.102 20:51, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

That is described as being one of several theories. Another theory is that both Talos and Palinal Whitestrake is Ysmir Wulfharth reincarnated, and that Ysmir himself might be the avatar of Shor (nordic aspect of Shezarr and Lorkhan). Another theory is that these are connected through the entity known as the underking, a powerfull "undead" or "immortal" warrior, who is reincarnated a while after the last one is dead. Wulfharth/The Ash-king, Talos and Zurin Arctus are among the ones rumored to have been the underking. A special case with this theory is that both Talos and Arcuts lived at the same time. One theory that resolves this is that Talos was underking up untill he conquered Tarmiel, and then the Underking entity passed on to Arctus. Jyggorath 15:06, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Moons

Whats the source on the moons recently starting to dissolve? --Max Welrod 04:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

It got added here, and the user who added it hasn't edited in three years so we can't ask. I've removed it for now as Oblivion clearly has the moons intact, and a Google search brings back nothing. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:22, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

From the unofficial cosmology document:

Masser and Secunda ('Jone' and 'Jode' in the Ehlnofex), the moons of Nirn, are the attendant spirits of the mortal plane. They are like the mortal plane in that they are temporal and subject to the bounds of mortality; in fact of this, the moons are dead and died long ago. The moons used to be pure white and featureless, but today their 'skin' is decaying and withering away. Their planes are likewise dying. Mortals perceive this as the moons being spheres with patches of their 'surfaces' completely eaten away; as the moons spin, they seem to become slivers or ragged crescents. These are not caused by shadows, because you can see stars through the black patches of the lunar spheres.

As paraphrased in the article, this detail didn't seem to be very helpful and clear, as it was suggesting that the moons may fall apart tomorrow. It does reinforce 'The Lunar Lorkhan's idea that the moons are his corpse, which isn't in the article and is perhaps the most important thing to say about them. I'm going to check up on the source for moons info that remain atm.74.65.142.202 15:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah... I think the stars are visible behind the moons in some occasions in Morrowind, but I think it was unnintentional, becouse it wasn't evident, nor was commented by any npc. Besides, as rpeh said, the moons are clearly intact in Oblivion... --Max Welrod 01:22, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

It probably was unintentional, but the Cosmology documents makes it intentional. Lunar Lorkhan references it as the Hollow Crescent Theory. The moons in Oblivion clearly aren't pure white. They are pockmarked in a universe where asteroids don't exist.Temple-Zero 04:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The reason I mentioned Oblivion was that I assumed the document was written between MW and OB. As you can see here, the moons don't show stars behind them in Morrowind either. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:30, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Look at Secunda's waning phases though, You can clearly see a nebula to the right of the waning moon, even in the gap of the crescent. If the moon merely had a shadow cast over it, the nebula shouldn't be visible in the "gap" of the crescent. If the moons in those pictures are just round planetoids like the IRL Moon, where does all that mass go? This is probably an unintentional mistake though, since the moons in Oblivion keep their shape in all phases, part of it just gets shadowed over (this is easily visible when the moons come up while there is still some daylight). The surfaces of the moons themselves still may be signs of the decaying planes, but the moons themselves will likely remain forever regardless. - Anonymous User

Of course, the silly thing is that they shouldn't wane and wax at all. If the sun isn't, as here, a ball of fire but a circular tare in the plane, then it can't rotate around the moons (well, body pieces)and so shadows can't be made...or something. Not that the writers should be blamed.My point is that the lore of a world where "physics" are so different is bound to have flaws.EDIT forgot to sign--Zefiewings 22:34, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Can Someone Clarify?

I hear all over that the creation of mundus by Lorkhan was a deceit, or a trick, or something. All sources equally agree it was a jerk thing to do. But I was never entirely clear on why. This site, despite my searching, gave me no new information. Can anyone help explain what exactly he did, why he did it, and why everyone was upset over it? 74.128.56.194 20:07, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Lorkhan "tricked" the gods into creating Mundus because they weren't made aware/couldn't have known that they would become trapped there after it's creation. That's why Magnus fled to Aetherius at the last second, and why the other gods killed Lorkhan once they discovered his "treachery". --Legoless 20:57, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The Gods are beings of Stasis, while Lorkhan seems to have been one of the first Gods of Change. He tricked the Gods into creating Mundus, knowing that they would become trapped within their creation. Magnus (a being who supposedly makes up the Stars of the world and the creator of magic) fled to Aetherius just before Lorkhan could trap him within Mundus. Angered by this treachery, the Gods tore Lorkhan asunder and threw his heart down to Mundus.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 21:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

But if Lorkhan truly was such a traitor a-hole, why is he listed in the gods-page as the Aldmeri version of Shor and Shezarr, the god of men, whom many of the other gods seems to adore? Akatosh also seems to be the same as Auriel, the Aldmeri god who sentenced Lorkhan to death (while Trinimac, I think, were the one who killed him). Jyggorath 15:12, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Shezarr and the whole Underking mix-up strays way out of my territory, but to my understanding Shezarr (a remnant of Lorkhan) was a god of Change, so obviously he would help mortals, who are an embodiment of change. I wouldn't agree with the wiki's listing of him as a "version" of Lorkhan, who was killed in the Mythic Era. --Legoless 15:43, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Lorkhan and Sithis

A recent addition is "Lorkhan is sometimes associated with Sithis ...". Reading Sithis there is a connection, but I read it more that all things and beings had their origin in the void, and not that there is a special association of Lorkhan and Sithis. The emphasis in the book is just because of the narrative. Are there any other sources hinting that they are associated? --Alfwyn 15:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I may have just read the book myself, but because of what I'd read I had been under the assumption that Lorkhan IS Sithis. I would also like clarification for this, but I'll keep my eyes open for books in-game. 71.77.77.25 00:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Heart of Lorkhan and the 'gods' of the Tribunal

So I was reading through some of the lore pages and I came across this one, and found it odd that there isn't a mention of the Heart (or even a link) or the Tribunal - was this an oversight, or was it intentional? I'd be glad to add the info myself (not opposed to contributing when I can!), but before I did so, I wanted to see if there was a specific reason that this link isn't mentioned here. Any thoughts? DextroWombat 07:28, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

It says on the top of the article that it is incomplete. You are whole-heartedly encouraged to edit articles. Even if some parts of your edit doesn't conform to this site's standards, the patrollers will fix that. All that matters is that you left something useful behind after an edit, even if it's only a corrected typo. But most importantly, have fun while editing! -- kertaw48 17:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

While details about the heart (and how the Tribunal used it) should go to Lore:Heart of Lorkhan, this article certainly should mention (and link to) the heart. --Alfwyn 17:21, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Aedra

Couldn't it be argued that Lorkhan is an Aedra? Not necessarily one of the 8/9 Divines but considering that the Aedra are "our ancestors" as in beings that participated in the creation of Mundus and now have limited power, Lorkhan seems to fit the bill. He started the idea of creation and I remember reading that he "imbued Nirn with his own divine spark" or something along those lines. So despite the fact that he's (understandably, considering their views of him) not part of the Elven Divine Pantheon, couldn't he be considered an Aedra? Baron Praxis 15:45, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

It could be argued, sure, but arguments are best left for the forums. As the page implies, Lorkhan is considered to be closely related to the Aedra, but he doesn't quite fit the bill. Even if he imbued Nirn with a spark at some point, according to The Monomyth, the other immortals removed his spark from the world. He may be the reason the mortal plane exists, but he didn't help make it. Mankar Camoran calls him a Daedra, but he's crazy and stupid, and many of the things he said were erroneous. Technically, Daedra are simply those original spirits who didn't help make the Mundus, but that doesn't quite fit for Lorkhan, either. So there's no point in calling him one or the other. It's better to think of him as an exception to both groups. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 18:41, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Let's not forget that Lorkhan, in spirit, has been present in the Imperial pantheon twice (as Shezarr and Talos). Seeing as he is also the God of Man, I'd be willing to plough ahead with labelling him as an Aedra, although I agree with Minor Edits that he's an exception to the general godly definitions. --Legoless 18:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

am I the only one who noticed that he is specifically referred to as an Aedra in the annotated annuad? When the book discusses the Aedras ability to die, it uses Lorkhan as a specific example of this occurring. 71.238.243.98 17:38, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Is Lorkhan The Ashking?

Is lorkhan The Ashking? Becase I had read in the Shezzarine page it had said this "When asked about Lorkhan and his avatars, developer Michael Kirkbride presented the following list. All items of the list are names, surnames, pseudonyms, or titles of people (notably Tiber Septim) suspected to be a part of the enantiomorphic "Oversoul" that is believed by some to constitute the deity known as Talos.[10][OOG 2]

1. Wulfharth L

2. Hjalti O

3. Ysmir R

4. Talos K

5. Arctus H

6. Septim A

N"

When i read it was like no that can't be but when I knew a lot lore and theories Including shor the dragonborn because if this theory is correct i'd be rich. The Ashking was "undead" or "Immortal" Warrior, who would who always come back after death in a new incarnation that Bethesda. Because it not only oviously spell out lorkhan, there is a missing 7th for "N" which could be the last dragonborn. And is all these incarnations. The "Ashking" would comeback as dragonborn Ysmir Wulfharth Talos who is also Tiber septim Arctus. Remeber the ashking would comeback after death and that he would comeback after his death and that shezzarines are apart of shor aka Lorkhan is apart of the shezzarines and which if UESP's Sources are correct and my theory is correct the dragonborn is shor because he is a shezzarine which that theory is correct and he is also the ashking which is another theory and the heart of lorkhan is on Mundus and Nirn and that he was killed by the aedra as punishment so in conclusion, My theory is that the Lorkhan is the ashking and because of this the shezariness are just lorkhan in a new form because of his name ashking and it stops at "N" who is the "Last" dragonborn, after all in skyrim. So if this theory is correct the dragonborn is an all new shor. so yeah. — Unsigned comment by 131.156.97.131 (talk) at 23:43 on 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Deleted Section on Varying Intepretations in different Tamriel Cultures

In case anyone comes looking for the reason this section was deleted: This entire section was added by one user, who claimed to be summarizing "Varieties of Faith" but added unsupported assertions for most of the cultures.

Full discussion of these mistakes can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/c2b21g/who_is_the_most_respected_in_nord_culture/erj0s8w/ — Unsigned comment by 50.99.8.51 (talk) at 05:59 on 17 July 2019 (UTC)